The Trinity is such a widely accepted doctrine that it is strange to see it challenged. They aren’t the same. It doesn’t say God gave himself it says he gave his only begotten son. My Lord and my God – In this passage the name God is expressly given to Christ, in his own presence and by one of his own apostles. And hopefully you can help me out. Please get back to me when you’ve done that. If one is to believe that Jesus was immortal at the time of His crucifixion, then He sacrificed nothing and his death and resurrection were merely an act or a facade. OOPS. What happens if you die in your sins? There is no evidence that this was a mere expression, as some have supposed, of surprise or astonishment. When you compare Rev. St. John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. It means exactly what it says. Here I’ll stick with what I know the most about, the text of the New Testament. (Colossians 2;9,10) God bless you to hear and receive the truth. I could write for a while on why using John 1:1-5 as a foundational teaching is really not a good idea, but put simply, we don’t actually have anywhere else to look for similar language to explain those verses. Jesus prays to the Father. Think about the parable of the prodigal Son. ), 451: Chalcedon (did Christ have one or two natures? In this view, the Son and the Spirit are both one with God and in no way separated from Him. In the simplist way to prove this is the Name of God. WOW finally , a person that thought the exact way ,almost verbatim ,word-for-word ,that’s been troubling me so long they’re ,the Holy Trinity never ever sat right with me. A veritable revolution in Jesus scholarship in the last century occurred when scholars began taking seriously that Jesus and his earliest followers were Jewish, living in a particular socio-political Sitz im Leben, which is typically designated as second temple Judaism. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. And as we do act like sheep (a need to follow) many started asking questions of the elders, i.e. JN 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. the Bible can be used to support the Trinity, just like it can be used to support brutal slavery or anti-semitism or any number of bad ideas, if we place the Trinitarian grid on top of Scripture it will line things up in a sort of way but without this a priori framework one does not read the Trinity out from Scripture (exegesis vs. eisegesis)…give a non-Christian a Bible to read and they will not come up with the Trinity, its like an oral tradition that must be taught alongside Scripture, the Trinity is not taught in one place but throughout Scripture, the post-biblical Christians developed the doctrine to correctly explain all the biblical data, God led these Fathers of the Church to the truth, so you have granted our point? The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this. Do you really want to call God a liar? When God speaks he always says I (except for the four times where he includes others in his action using “us” Gen. 1.26; 3.22; 11.7; Is. The comments by pastor Hunter illustrate the great difficulty we have in explaining the correct role/position of Jesus. Isaiah 43:11 Means that only Yahweh is the ultimate saviour. God is the father of Jesus. NOT. Thomas didn’t believe Jesus was alive. Here are some others. Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Question: "What are some popular illustrations of the Holy Trinity?" 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